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Apr 11, 2006 21:58 # 42503

Hardballkid *** has all the information you need...

God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience politics

88% | 4

Well, here we are. Years into the Iraqi war with no end in sight and over 2,300 men dead and almost 17,000 wounded, America (and the world) turns its sight onto Iran. As their nuclear muscles flex and America's mouthing threats gain power, war looks possible whether it be tomorrow or a year from now. It seems both are set for the hell of war as all peaceful allocations seems to have diminished, especially when a raging insane Mullahs dictates and a trigger-happy arrogant President presides. America's patience with Iran is all but gone as both call each other the "evil empire" and play gulf war games.

When a fanatical leader tells of missiles meant to be fired at Israel and US military bases in the Middle East and elsewhere is declared, is there any alternative road? Iran said that if the US attempts to "take out" its nuclear facilities in order to stop its nuclear development plans, it will respond with worldwide terror attacks. All I know, Israel had better be on guard.

According to some sources, U.S. two options are either: a quick strike against nuclear facilities along with a threat to continue if Iran wages terrorist attacks in response; or a more expansive bombing of Iranian government facilities and other targets.

So, the question of the day- Is the cost of allowing Tehran to go nuclear far greater than the price of prevention?

By the way, what happened to North Korea?

Now are ye undeceived! Welcome, again, my children, to the communion of your race!

Apr 12, 2006 07:09 # 42504

null throws in his two cents...

Re: God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience polit

By the way, what happened to North Korea?

Nothing, AFAIK. (Which might just show that having nukes does protect you from Bush)

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

Apr 12, 2006 07:27 # 42505

andromacha *** takes out her flame thrower...

Re: God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience polit

?% | 2

So, the question of the day- Is the cost of allowing Tehran to go nuclear far greater than the price of prevention?

Why America doesn't stop thinking like this? It is an idiotic thing. Assuming that they do have the nuclear missiles (which they don't have, at least not yet), don't you think that they will be ready to shoot at you? And if not at you, they will launch them on Europe, and we do not have anything to do with this!!!

Right yesterday this topic was discussed on TV, and it was clear that Iran doesn't have enough machines to produce rich uranium to make us think that they could be preparing the A-bomb. North Korea has the nuclear, but they won't use it on America. Now, I can understand that America feels worried about Iran, because of their international imperialist policy. But then, just stop sending your troops all over the world pretending to "save" other people. Because so far you saved no one. American soldiers have died and still die, some Italians had the same treatment because we're stupid and we follow America anywhere, thousands of innocent Iraqis died too. Do you remember when America said "oops we bombed a school, but we didn't mean to"? Or when they said "oops we bombed a hospital, our bad".

If Bush goes in Iran, then this is the end of the world. I have heard the stupidest things coming from his mouth. I am particularly worried because he said that he's thinking about using nuclear missiles on the nuclear bases of Iran. But does he know what the hell that means?! Maybe he doesn't care, because the radioactive stuff wouldn't touch the heads of the Americans, but sure as hell they would reach Europe. And it would be far worse than Chernobyl. Do you remember what happened back then? I was only three years old, but I did remember quite well when we had acid rains, and I was forbidden to play in the garden or to pick up flowers from the ground, or when we had to eat only frozen vegetables, because my grandma's were polluted. And I do have nightmares about this happening again.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Apr 12, 2006 08:27 # 42506

null throws in his two cents...

Re: God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience polit

?% | 2

because the radioactive stuff wouldn't touch the heads of the Americans, but sure as hell they would reach Europe.

Funny enough, people claim this is already happening. Apparently radioactivity levels in Europe have started rising at the same time that the US army started using dirty bombs in Iraq.

Another interesting article can be found here:

It has now been confirmed that Iraq has indeed received massive shipments of uranium, as alleged by the United States, and as previously only supported by forged documents. According to reports, up to 2,000 tons have been delivered, and this number does not even include the at least 230 tons delivered as early as 1991.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

This post was edited by null on Apr 12, 2006.

Apr 13, 2006 21:14 # 42517

baexcell *** rants...

Re: God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience polit

?% | 1

Why America doesn't stop thinking like this? It is an idiotic thing. Assuming that they do have the nuclear missiles (which they don't have, at least not yet), don't you think that they will be ready to shoot at you? And if not at you, they will launch them on Europe, and we do not have anything to do with this!!!

There is one slight problem with this statement, that being that "we" (ie. Europe, The EU, whatever you want to call yourselves) do have something to do with it. They have made the same claims as Bush has, so don't sit over there like Europe is the perfect little conglomeration and America is the land of war-mongering idiots.

As for your statement about Iran not having the enriched uranium to make a bomb, that is true, for now. They are working on enriching the uranium, which could lead to them being in a position to make that bomb and drop/launch it at whichever enemy they should choose (Irag, Israel, Europe, USA, etc.).

Apr 13, 2006 21:35 # 42519

andromacha *** shakes her head...

Re: God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience polit

?% | 1

They have made the same claims as Bush has

We are worried simply because we don't know what could Bush do. I mean, of course it is something that shouldn't be underestimated, but at the same time war is not an option to us. And yes, Europe doesn't like the fact that America has this thing for going wherever it is possible to drop some bombs to have their economic system boosted up.

And we did not appreciate how America used non conventional weapons in Kosovo, or in Iraq. Weapons which are forbidden for their nature. Several Italians who were in peace missions in Kosovo have already died of cancer because of the weapons used by the American forces there. And the same weapons were used in Iraq as well.

Maybe you think that war should always be an option; guess what, it is not! War is only a bad continuation of politics, and should always be avoided when possible. And yes, the war in Iraq could have been avoided. If then you like to be a goat and think that whatever Bush does is right, and go with the masses, then so be it. But the world's welfare surely won't benefit from such behaviors.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Apr 12, 2006 19:00 # 42508

jdonnell *** replies...

Re: God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience polit

66% | 3

The assumption that I have a problem with, that no one seems to notice, is the premise that we can indefinitely prevent countries and peoples from getting nuclear weapons. Technology only gets easier in cheaper in time. We need to learn to get along, lose the bravado, and grow up. That's the only plan that will work in the long run.

Apr 12, 2006 22:04 # 42509

andromacha *** agrees...

Re: God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience polit

?% | 2

The assumption that I have a problem with, that no one seems to notice, is the premise that we can indefinitely prevent countries and peoples from getting nuclear weapons. Technology only gets easier in cheaper in time. We need to learn to get along, lose the bravado, and grow up. That's the only plan that will work in the long run.

To this, I say bravo! Well put. But I do agree with you totally. And afterall why can America and Europe have nuclear weapons/nuclear energy, and North Korea, Iran, India.. cannot? I mean, I think that either everybody has access to such things, or nobody should use it.

It is not fair for certain countries to just decide for the others whether they can be allowed to have them or not. It would be like me waking up one day and telling people that they cannot have access to the Internet anymore.

The fact is that new technologies simplify our lives, and in some cases they could even save our life. So why can someone be in the position of saying "no, you cannot have this, ,because you live in such and such country"? We are all human beings in the end, and we all benefit more or less from the same things. So I don't see why some people should benefit from new technologies and other should be forbidden to use them.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Apr 15, 2006 07:05 # 42537

Salvial_Ten *** throws in her two cents...

Re: God-witness-we-tried-hard-but-we-are-running-out-of-patience polit

89% | 2

This is my blanket reply to everything said in the thread thus far. (Yes, I'm far too lazy to go back and hit all of them individualy, plus its kinda spamish to do that anyway.)

Anyway, it is pretty damn easy to get fed up with how America handles the rest of the world. However, I can't say as though the blame lays souly on the shoulders of Bush. For the most part people in America could give two shits less about foreign policy. Those American's on this site that offer intellegent debate/conversation/commentary about f.p. are exceptions of course. Hell even the unintellegent comments are a lot more than most would offer. So naturally when things like terrorism and homeland security are brought up infront of a mostly panicked nation you'll get a President who thinks he has the biggest dick in the world and threatens and dictacts who gets what and the consequences.

Historically the US has behaved in such a way to everyone and everything. During WWII one of our better presidents, F.D. Roosevelt, enacted a Presential Order that had Japanese-Americans locked in internment camps during part of the war. After that you have scary bastards like McCartney and Nixon calling everyone that doesn't think like they do a Communist to play off the fears of Americans following WWII and into the Cold War.

Speaking of World War II, we didn't actually give Japan a chance to respond to the first dropping of the a-bomb before we dropped the other. Neither were on military targets. In fact, some historians maintain that our real reason behind the bombing of Japan was to discourage the USSR from dabbling in Asia. That was kind of a tangent so lets keep going. If this interpertation is correct though, it'd be more logical to think that if the US nukes Iran it'd be a totally non-military target. Thusly avoiding world wide terrorist attacks (hah hah hah, I made a funny) by not blowing up the refinment sites or government buildings.

I don't disagree that Israel and Europe would be likely targets of Iranian retaliation for military action by the United States, however I think they're more likely to start sinking oil tankers and going after refinery sites in Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan while ceasing to sell Iranian oil to the United States. That is after all the easiest way to have a massive effect on the American people and the rest of the world.

As for people getting over themselves and world peace being achieved? Not gonna happen. Not now, not ever. Its been proven time and time again in world history that we just can not get along with eachother. And it seems to be, that the more "advanced" we get, the more we fuck eachother over, and ruin our planet. So if we don't blow eachother up we're just going to die of cancer, lack of water, lack of food, sun-death, or the world is just gonna split and half and float away (that last was sarcasm).

--Jami

--Jami Yeah, that's gonna sting in the morning.


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