Reading Current Events

Apr 26, 2006 00:44 # 42633

lightyears * posts about...

Dear world

39% | 5

Today was holocaust memorial day
comemorating the death of 6 million inocent men woman children and babys.
Wile they died the world was silent, it seems the world only see's fit to raise its voice if its to condemn the jewish people, then its never at a loss for words, bus wile 6 milion die, silence.
Check out a link that will take you to a letter addressed to the world
http://Www.Kahanetzadak.Com/dear.Html

Apr 26, 2006 11:17 # 42635

andromacha *** has a suggestion...

Re: Dear world

48% | 3

Please, please... why don't you stop writing really stupid things here? Nobody wants to condemn the Jews nor the Arabs, and it is quite annoying that you keep saying the same things over and over again.

If anything, what the world can see right now is that the Jews are trying to do to the Arabs what they had been done by Hitler more or less. The Jews started all this hatred with the Arabs, because they wanted more and more space, more and more land, trying to subtract it to the Arabs. I think that they are both wrong, because things should be worked out through words, and not through war. Like I said in one of my previous posts somewhere, war is only the extension of politics... only it is used when politics fails, or when it is claimed to be failing.

Please stop this "the Jews are good, the Arabs are bad" kinda thing, because it only shows your ignorance to the world and how much you still have to learn.
Now, for all of the Naoiies, rate me down, do what you feel like doing. I only cannot stand to read stupid posts like this one anymore.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Apr 26, 2006 12:31 # 42636

MelMel *** replies...

Re: Dear world

91% | 2

Ok, let's all take a step back. Quite frankly andromacha I'm very surprised at this post from you. I've never noted you to be anything fair and reasonable. either this post is a fluke, or i've certainly been reading your posts with the wrong tone. If your reply were in response to something i had written i would be deeply offended. Someone mourns the death of many, and you abuse them and call them 'ignorant', 'stupid' and 'annoying'. now, i do have issues with all of their posts in the other thread they initiated, however, you may fight that battle over there if you wish. to do so in this context is just apaling.

And on a side note, NAO don't we think that perhaps abusing all newbies because they aren't immediately at a standard we would appreciate might be lightly like saying, oh, digging our grave. NAOs getting quieter and quieter, we need new blood, and the only way to do this is to nurture the newbs.

let's all drop the negativity, that's what i personally find to be ignorant, stupid and annoying.

come guys, pull yourselves together, or in the words of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, "understand we'll go hand in hand but we'll walk alone in fear".

*coughs* sorry, that moment just played on my teleision and it's actually quite an appropriate comment, even if i do wish it came from a slightly more respectable source.

Yours with peaceful thoughts,
-Mel

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

Apr 26, 2006 13:12 # 42638

null throws in his two cents...

Re: Dear world

it seems the world only see's fit to raise its voice if its to condemn the jewish people, then its never at a loss for words, bus wile 6 milion die, silence.

I think andromacha might have been offended by this, as the idea that it may be a dig at some NAOee's (cough) Israel-critical statements in this thread does not appear too far-fetched. (God, what a sentence.)
To be frank, I too am a bit sick of that constant "we Jews are poor victims and you all must fall over each other to express your sympathy and support" whining. What the Nazis did was detestable, but IMNSHO the fact that something bad happened to your grandfather sixty years ago is not a reason to demand being treated as a victim yourself.
I chose not to reply tho, for (now) obvious reasons.


On a side note, has anybody noticed that today is also Chernobyl's 20th anniversary?

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

Apr 26, 2006 13:51 # 42639

Orchid *** throws in her two cents...

Re: Dear world

On a side note, has anybody noticed that today is also Chernobyl's 20th anniversary?

Yes, I did. Heard and saw it in the media yesterday and today...

"Sie wollen nichts anderes. Sie wollen kämpfen! Sie sind Soldaten! Fucking Wahnsinnige!" - Noel G.

Apr 26, 2006 16:15 # 42640

andromacha *** has all the information you need...

Re: Dear world: to melmel

25% | 3

Mel I was not talking about anything you had said at all. Null got the right answer actually. I am only very pissed at this person's behavior on netalive. I am talking about lightyears. Lately all the posts I have been reading written by this person were all like "Jews are good, Arabs are bad". But come on, someone needs to wake up here. Things are not the way someone depicts them. It is not all white or black.

And to be honest, Mel, I am not offended at all. I am only DISGUSTED, because Netalive should be a place to conduct smart discussions in peace, but all this person is doing is writing the same thing over and over again in different posts and different ways. The message is however the same though: blaming the Arabs for everything that is happening in the world nowadays. And yes, Mel, this is IGNORANT, SHALLOW AND STUPID.

Again, it was not directed towards you, but only to lightyears, a person who should grow up a bit before spurting out sentences and judgments like this. So, if you felt offended by my post, or if you thought I was attacking you, well you couldn't be more wrong :) I am against violence of any sort, and what upsets me is hearing this person saying how the Arabs did this and that to Jews, but never reporting what the Jews do and will keep doing in exchange. If anything, they are balancing themselves out. And I am once again saying that I am deeply fed up with this s***t of hearing "the Jews are good and innocent, and the Arabs are only moth***ers who kill the poor innocent Jews". This is not true, it has never been and never will be.

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Apr 26, 2006 17:11 # 42641

Hawkeye *** replies...

Re: Dear world: to melmel

Well let her say what she wants. If she wants to believe Jews are 100% innocent, that is her opinion. There have been many instances in netalive in which people have expressed wrong opinions, but have been respected for having said it.

And her repetition, so long as it isn't intended to "flood" netalive with topics, is perfectly fine. She just may not receive more than mediocre for the repetition and bad grammar.

But I respect her willingness to try, and for that I am not going to rate any of her posts below mediocre for that reason alone.

It's part of the philosophy of netalive to be able to express your opinion here isn't it? Would I be condemned for giving my perhaps apparently wrong viewpoints more than once? I'd like to think I wouldn't.

We reserve the right to call a post spam only if it is not meant in the sincerest attempts to say one's opinion genuinely. And I believe lightyear's post qualifies as a non-spam post. However, in order for her to receive ratings above mediocre, she will have to learn to respect the views of others and perhaps improve her grammar more.

If the world should blow itself up,the last audible voice would be an expert saying it can't be done

This post was edited by Hawkeye on Apr 26, 2006.

Jun 09, 2006 06:49 # 42988

betty *** replies...

Re: Dear world

has anybody noticed that today is also Chernobyl's 20th anniversary?

Has it really been 20 years since Chernobyl? It doesn't seem that long ago.

I feel old.

I am just me, searching for simplicity.........and a good hair stylist

Jun 10, 2006 10:13 # 43000

Deimos ** laughs about...

Re: Dear world

?% | 1

I feel old.

That'd be the radiation. ;)

Sir Deimos, Beater of Ass.

Jan 07, 2015 05:51 # 47481

toeffi3404 * replies...

Re: Dear world

NAOs getting quieter and quieter, we need new blood, and the only way to do this is to nurture the newbs.

NAOs getting quieter and quieter, we need new blood, and the only way to do this is to nurture the newbs.

Apr 30, 2006 08:46 # 42700

MelMel *** replies...

Re: Dear world

I suppose i should rebutt everyone's various responses here, but i'm very reluctant to do so. My whole point was let's try to keep the peace. Let's have a successful discussion that doesnt result in personal attacks for a change. *Shrugs* it seems that this is just not possible. Everyone's so passionate and determined that they are right, and open-minded, and that differing opinion is mere ignorance. The only thing worse than scorning someone for their opinion is pitying them for it. All i wanted was for people to take a step back and try to construct their arguments in a positive, supportive manner. There was a time, when such posts were the common standard here...

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

May 01, 2006 10:54 # 42705

null isn't happy...

Re: Dear world

Everyone's so passionate and determined that they are right, and open-minded, and that differing opinion is mere ignorance.

The problem is that it's not easy to have a matter-of-fact discussion with somebody who just can't stop assuming bad things about you and putting words into your mouth, and repeatedly makes questionable claims while reliably ignoring any requests for evidence or further information.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

May 01, 2006 11:00 # 42706

MelMel *** replies...

Re: Dear world

70% | 3

That may be very true, but it's not my primary concern. My concern was the timing and placement of andromacha's response. Any criticisms should have been done in the other discussion, i just felt that it was inappropriate to be done after a post such as this one. The response was not really based on their post, but on the other thread and on them personally which i do not feel was fair. But, such is life. Time's are a changing, so i'll roll with it i guess, or beside it at the very least.

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

May 01, 2006 12:34 # 42707

null replies...

Re: Dear world

Oh, I see. In that case please disregard my latest post.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

May 01, 2006 12:40 # 42708

MelMel *** replies...

Re: Dear world

*Looks around* what post? Where? I didn't see any post. ;)

Look at me! I'm a prostitute robot from the future!

Apr 27, 2006 08:17 # 42649

lightyears * replies...

Re: Dear world

42% | 3

Firstly this post was not about the arab israeli conflict
where are the jes doing the same to the arabs as the nazi' did to them?
I dont see it, i hear lots of wild claims, few true.
And i think if you check your history you will find that it was the arabs who started of all the hatred with the jews.
The jews exepted partition the arabs rejected it if they had not they would be two states today, israel won the territories in 1967 in a war of self deffence.
Now it appears you have a deep hatred of jews that leads you to demonise them, and an even deeper hatred for truth.
How foolish you are when some one holding an opposing view to yours, bothers you so.
Now a breif comment to the other replys to this post
you accuse me of thinking jews are so inocent, well are you not guilty of thinking the arabs are so inocent, acording to you they cannot put a foot wrong
and if opposing views to your own bother you so gratelley, what is the point to having this forum
and besides attacking me personally how about using fact and truth to try to argue your points.

Apr 27, 2006 08:37 # 42651

cyborg *** replies...

Re: Dear world

?% | 2

well are you not guilty of thinking the arabs are so inocent, acording to you they cannot put a foot wrong

Jesus, it's this kind of black and white thinking that's precisely the kind of crap that's propagating the conflict in the Middle East.

Apr 27, 2006 08:52 # 42652

null replies...

Re: Dear world

Now it appears you have a deep hatred of jews that leads you to demonise them, and an even deeper hatred for truth.

How foolish you are when some one holding an opposing view to yours, bothers you so.

well are you not guilty of thinking the arabs are so inocent, acording to you they cannot put a foot wrong

And statements like these tell me that you either didn't bother to read what other people write, or just lack the mental capacity to actually get it.

Examples?

You read: "The Israeli government sucks"
You reply with: "You hate Jews"

You read: "Not all Arabs are evil terrorists"
You reply with: "You say the Arabs are innocent angels"

You read: "Please stop repeating the same things over and over again"
You reply with: "You can't take opposing opinions"

So would you say the Israeli government has never done anything wrong and represents each and every Jew in the world, and all Arabs are violent terrorists who want to wipe out the Jews and thus should be preemptively bombed before they get the chance?
'cause the way you keep whining that's exactly the impression I get.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

Apr 27, 2006 10:23 # 42653

Martin *** replies...

Re: Dear world

?% | 1

and if opposing views to your own bother you so gratelley, what is the point to having this forum
and besides attacking me personally how about using fact and truth to try to argue your points.

The only fact and truth I can see in your posts is your unbreakable stubbornness to have the ultimate truth for yourself and anybody else with a different opinion is automatically your enemy! Why don't you realize its *exactly* this attitude and behavior and nothing else, that creates wars. No one here is your enemy, stop *calling* anyone like that. Not everybody you CALL a terrorist automatically gets one, but some... some might only then get the idea. That's your responsibility about the situation - pun intended.

There is no doubt there are people within the Arab nation, who go too far in their choice of means to win, what they believe in. And its also without any doubt at all its the same on Israel's/the Western world's side. No one wants to blame you or Israel or the US or Bush or God or the weather for being the *only one* guilty for a global situation. But stubbornly repeating the same old - for every external observer so obvious - national propaganda doesn't change anything about the facts, that you so boldly try to bend for your needs.

You want facts, here are some:
Fact is, there are people dying on both sides.
Fact is, Israel is the only country in that area not belonging to the same
a) belief
b) defense pact
c) political alignment
d) genetic tribe
as all surrounding nations.
Fact is, the nation of Israel is an artificially installed construct.
Fact is, Israel is the only nuclear power in that area.
Fact is, while Israel is being attacked by single cuckoo individuals, Israel itself keeps retaliating with the power of a nation and its national military.
Fact is, killing civilians doesn't make it more right, if being done as retaliation.
Fact is, double standards are so much easier to see from the outside.
Fact is, each side claims to act in self-defense.
Fact is, physical strength - so strength of military - is proportional inverse to the strength of character.

And you know what, no other facts are relevant in this conflict for outsiders. It doesn't interest at all, who is wrong or right in his claims about history, guilt and being the victim. This is a ridiculous fight, and its even more ridiculous to hear repeated stories, how always the other side are the evil ones. That reminds me of myself, when I was 8 or 10 years old and always blamed my little brother for anything happened. Israel struggles to be accepted as a full member in the community of nations, like the former GDR always struggled with their own national self-esteem. You cant even call it a nation what Palestinians have. So, may be its just that, two kids trying to get attention and approval by the grown ups. They just have still to learn that crying and ongoing struggling is just a part of growing up, but there comes a time when you have to leave that behind.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

Apr 27, 2006 11:40 # 42655

lightyears * replies...

Re: Dear world

?% | 1

If you taling of the unbreakable stubourness of sticking to the fact (which you so willfully distort) than yeah im stuborn
your idea of moral relitivism is simply wrong.
The fact that israel does not have the same,belief, defens pact, political alinmente, and genetic tribe, meens what, that it has no right to exist becouse it doesnt fit in? Pointless fact.An an artificially instald construct, really
the land of israel has bean made a nation to only one people, the jewish people, there never was another indipendent political entity in that land, to call itself a nation, there have always been jews, granted in smaller nomber living there.
You wanna talk about an artificially instald constuct look at jorden.
Yeah israel is the only nueclear power in that area, diffrence is israel hopes to never have to use them, but they act as a deterance for israels many enemys who have tryed to destroy israel in 1948, 1967, 1973, and if they thought they had a chance in hell of winning would attack again.
I when you refer to single cuckoo individuals, you meen terrorist organisations like hamas, islamic jehad, fatah, ect..
Israel has the right, indeed the obligation to deffend her self,as a nation, no other contry would be expected to do otherwise.
The so called retaliatory strike are aimed at the terrorist who perpitrate them (who hide in populated areas, using there own people as human shields) there is a price to be paid for terrorist act and a price to be paid for a people who aids and abets the terrorist.Fact is unfortunatly some times inocents do die but the major difference is israel does not , target civilians, the terrorist do.
From what point you percive a double standard matters little, only if that perception in justified, does it matter.
Each side claims to act in self deffence, by that i suppose you are refering to hamas claiming that, last weeks pass over boming was self deffence, yeah like those 9 dead individuals posed a big threat to them, i suppose letting them live would have coused untold damage to them, like i said before the claim only means some thing if it is justified
and like i said israel has a right to self deffence if the arrabs put doun there wheapons they would be peace if israel put doun her wheapons she would be anialated.
Comparing the conflict to kids fighting may sound cute but in reality, israel is a tiny nation, home of the jewish people ,who tryed to live out side of israel and allmost got compleatly destroyed, a cuntry of our own is our only protection from that happening again, the arabs that call them selves palastinian have 22 arab contrys to live in, it has jorden wich is a palastinian state, but israel has tryed to make peace with them, the arabs have made clear that the only peace they will settle for with israel is no israel.

Apr 27, 2006 13:57 # 42656

Martin *** replies...

Re: Dear world

93% | 3

The fact that israel does not have the same,belief, defens pact, political alinmente, and genetic tribe, meens what, that it has no right to exist becouse it doesnt fit in? Pointless fact.

I just enumerated facts you were so eagerly asking for. I did NOT jump to conclusions as you said, that's a willful imputation!

Just for a moment lets assume you're living in Haifa, a silent little city, where you got all you need. One day some mighty organisation, lets say the U.N. for example, decides to settle down a wandering tribe of nameless Arabs. And to find a place for them they choose the Bahai-Gardens. Its quiet, no one actually living in the gardens, it has ancient Arab artefacts, just the right place for them. For how long do you think they would live there in peace? Do you honestly want to tell me, your people would let them live there in peace, while they steal even more land from you, build borders, fences, walls, build a strong over-gunned military and threaten the surrounding area with weapons of mass destruction?

Come on... wake up!

Of course Israel got its right to exist as a nation, no one with the least degree of understanding denies that, but does it have to be within the heart of a natural enemy? Sometimes I got the feeling Israel, and you as well as an individual representing your country, you *love* the role you're playing, yes, playing, and I mean it! The role of the Goldfish in a bowl of Piranhas! You bath with increasing paranoia in your fate, you leave no opportunity to moan about the bad world around you, how dangerous it is and still how tough you are not to give in. Do you expect respect and recognition for it? Of course, if you arm the Goldfish with harpoons, whenever he kills another Piranha, he would claim to do it in self-defense. But what's his business there in the first place, huh?

And to clarify, I'm not denying Israel's right to live as a more or less independent nation, I'm just asking, if there might not be safer places for ALL parties concerned.

An an artificially instald construct, really the land of israel has bean made a nation to only one people, the jewish people, there never was another indipendent political entity in that land, to call itself a nation, there have always been jews, granted in smaller nomber living there.

Ah, so before the nation of Israel was formed there was a black hole or something, right? The land did not belong to anybody, right? There have been small numbers of Yews, though, I see. And that's actually your justification for the existence of Israel in that area? You bet you would find areas in the U.S. Midwest, that are not as densely populated today like you mention it, and you could find as many Yews there as in all other parts of the world, cause the last time I looked being a Yew was a religion, not a nationality. But may be I'm wrong again.

You wanna talk about an artificially instald constuct look at jorden.

Yup, pointing fingers is always the wisest thing to do.

Yeah israel is the only nueclear power in that area, diffrence is israel hopes to never have to use them, but they act as a deterance for israels many enemys who have tryed to destroy israel in 1948, 1967, 1973, and if they thought they had a chance in hell of winning would attack again.

So, why not grant the same right of self-defense to any nation then? How many times Iran, Iraque and Afghanistan have been attacked... for lesser reasons? Really, do you honestly think I would trust your government - and to make that clear right now: ANY government - more, than any other government in the world when it comes down to talk about "self-defense" and "deterrence"?

israel won the territories in 1967 in a war of self deffence.

Would you please explain it technically to me, how you can "win territories in a war of self-defense"? In my book, I'm either defending what I have or actively taking away, what belongs to others.

I when you refer to single cuckoo individuals, you meen terrorist organisations like hamas, islamic jehad, fatah, ect..

Just because they are branded "terrorist organisations" doesn't mean they actually are. First and foremost Hamas and Fatah are religious organisations, fundamentalists, yes, but nonetheless just names for certain special forms of Islamic belief. What makes them "terrorists" is the existence of Israel at their doorstep. If Israel was founded, say, in North America, no one around the non-islamic-world would ever have heard that names.

From what point you percive a double standard matters little, only if that perception in justified, does it matter.

It matters little, I see.
Okay, may be you could help me understand a few things better and enlighten me with your knowledge, so I see your justifications.
Yews got a right for a homeland, Palestinians not. Why?
Israelian lifes are worth more than Arab lifes. Why?
Israel urgently needs nukes for deterrence, why not all nations?
Innocent dying in Israel is a terrorist act, while Arab civilians dying is an unfortunate but approving side effect.

9 dead individuals posed a big threat to them, i suppose letting them live would have coused untold damage to them, like i said before the claim only means some thing if it is justified

Then let me try to justify it, even if its sure as hell wont freeze over you wont understand it.
There is no army of Palestinians, they got no tanks, no military, no rockets, no nukes, no infrastructure. All they have is their lifes to put on the line. This is no war of two nations on a battle field after the rules of Napoleon. This is Tsun-Tsu-War, its dirty as dirty can be, and everyone fights with what he's got. You send out aircrafts loaded with rockets firing into public traffic claiming to have picked out a weapons truck (harhar). The others even sacrifice their own life to make you suffer. And you do, that's why its happening again and again! Because you get hit at a point, where it hurts, which you can not defend against, where your nukes just let you look ridiculous, where you get angry. THATS why its happening time and again, ...just cause its got effect (which again reminds me of my little brother, but alright).

the arabs that call them selves palastinian have 22 arab contrys to live in, it has jorden wich is a palastinian state.

Ah, okay, there is someone coming along telling you "okay, I'm living in your house from now on. Look, there are 22 other houses around here, go live there". And you pack your bag and walk along, right? But Israel OF COURSE got a right to be a nation! Talking bout double-standards...
Where exactly was "Palestine" again? In Jordan?

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

Apr 27, 2006 16:01 # 42657

andromacha *** takes out her flame thrower...

Re: Dear world

Here, I only want to say how I do appreciate the views of Martin and Null. I think that they probably managed to express with more proper words the exact feelings that I have towards this matter.

Personally, I am not even going to be touched by the opinion of lightyears, because I haven't heard anything more biased than this lately. Either you live in a country that passes only shit on TV to state how the Arabs are bad and the Western people or the Jews are good, or I really don't understand how you can be so blind towards the events which are plaguing (is that the correct verb?) the world today.

Also, I am sorry to say this, but after all the insults you have thrown at me, I can't just keep quiet. And so here I go "I mean how do you think that people here can take you seriously? You write in such an incomprehensible English that it is hard to follow you through your thoughts, right or wrong they may be". I confess that I couldn't keep from laughing out loud for the things you wrote in your post, and my colleagues were here too, and could enjoy your weird ideas too. Nobody here agrees with you. Not only me, but it seems that also the other Naoiies seem to have the same feeling on the matter.

If you don't like open discussions, and you feel like you have to throw insults at people who don't think the same things that you believe, maybe Netalive is not the right place for you. And quite frankly, I don't give a damn about what you think of me. You don't even know me, and I am not touched to say the least by the dumb things you have written about me. As long as I know that they are not true, and as long as other people know this, then you can say whatever you want about me. But I reserve the right to throw out here how stupid, shallow and ignorant I think you are by such affirmations you are making.

TO MARTIN AND NULL: thanks for your contribution. Martin, it's nice to see you're back, and it's nice to see you're supporting my claims too. I hope I will be seeing more of you around here from now onwards, and I hope we will "settle" the old thingie, unless you have already set it :P

Italy no longer accepts illegal immigrants. Mr. B sink their boats!!!!!!!

Apr 28, 2006 08:50 # 42683

lightyears * replies...

Re: Dear world

?% | 2

Imagined facts or fact taken out of context are meaningless
now imagine you live in israel, along comes a super power and chucks you out, so you wonder aimlesslly from contry to contry for 2000 years hoping to find some ware to settle, but alas your expeld pogromed masacard , life is made unbarable for you, you know some of your breathren or ekeing out a meger existence in the land of israel, that is vertually uninhibited,and you know the land has becoume inhospitable and desolate, but you deside to go back and cultivate it any thing rather them live under constant persicution.
In israel there is very few people but in time you cultivate the land and you make it flourish you build inferstructure, and jobs, and along come arabs and wish to benefit from this newlly flourishing contry that you so lovinglly revived, all you ask of them is to live with you in peace. That is closer to the truth
and the land the jews lived on before 1967 they purchased so cut the crap about stolen land.
And as for the idea of israel existing some wear else.
Why, why should israel have to be moved, the arabs have 22 contrys of wich to live in, israel has always been the jewish home land, hears an idea how about population transfer,
in 1948 when the arab contrys expeled most of thire jews stealing thire posessions and home,many arived with nothing in israel, they gave us our jews, so now we should give them thire arabs.
The jewish home land has always been israel, we did not just pick an emply black whole
we chose the home land of our ancesters, what justification do the arabs have to that land? Oh yeah thire ancestors stole it from ours.
I thought you'd aprove of finger pointing as you do it oh so well.
Iran iraq and afganistan, attacked for lesser reasons? Well lets see oh yeah afganistan was that not the contry from were alqueida with the help of the talaban arranged for planes to fly into buildings in america and kill thousands of inocent civilians, hardly a reason for the us attack
araq was invading other contrys hurting its own people and threatning to hurt alot more people, no jutification?
Iran does not even bear speaking about.
These contrys if they stop invading each other and stop threatning the world would not be attacked.
I'l say it again if the arabs put down thire wheapons, there would be peace, if the israeli put down thire wheapons there would be no israel.
I 1967 all the arab contrys planed an atack on israel, in an aim of driving the jews into the sea
israel had a right to self deffence and it exersized that right
in that war it won back its teritories wich the arabs had bean ocupying, and it took over all of the sinie
it declared it would give back all the teritory it won for peace
the arab contrys refused and in 1973 attempted again to destroy israel, now eventually egypt agreed to peace with israel and so israel gave them back the sinie, it offered to do the same with other teritories it won on conditions of peace but the arabs have refused.
A terorist organisation is just that if it targets americans, english, australians, spanish, or other arabs, but when they target israelis then thats okay they are just religios institutions(do i detect a hint of anti sematism here.)
They target inocent civilians, that makes them terrorists
jew have israel as a home land arabs who call themselves palastinians, already have a home land jorden. But if thery must have another one they have 22 arab contries, thet them build another nation thire.
Israeli life is equal to the lives of other peoples
ther is no justification for diliberatly killing 9 inocent people, the only thing that makes you find justification in that is that those 9 people happend to be jewish israelis
israel neads nueclear wheapons for deterance becouse it is at constant threat from its naighbours(who have tryed repeatedlly to wipe her out), other contrys are not
and about you last point the land you casll palstine was only a home to jews, it was stolen from jews, and it changed hand over the malenias but its rightfull owners was the jews.
The whole of palastine included jorden, but the british gave the arabs that part of the land(the palastinan state)
now a point to the othe replys on this post.
You hold very anti israel views and claim it is me who is not being open minded, look at historical fact,(not what you whant it to be but what it is)
as a jew and an israeli jew, i can tell you we have been defending our position for many years, with far smarter more dangerous folk than you, im pretty sure i can handle it, your ignorance of the conflict is astounding not to mention blind support for the arabs that call them selves palastinians.

Apr 28, 2006 09:54 # 42684

cyborg *** replies...

Re: Dear world

64% | 3

Imagined facts or fact taken out of context are meaningless

Then it is probably not best to start with a fiction.

Jews wandering the desert for 2000 years after being chucked out of where by a superpower?

Well lets see oh yeah afganistan was that not the contry from were alqueida with the help of the talaban arranged for planes to fly into buildings in america and kill thousands of inocent civilians,

No it wasn't. That was Saudi Arabia.

araq was invading other contrys hurting its own people and threatning to hurt alot more people, no jutification?

Iraq wasn't invading anyone (you can't use the previous Gulf War as justification). If hurting one's own people was a good justification the US would be invading people all over the world. Hell, the US is hardly spotless on human rights issues.

These contrys if they stop invading each other and stop threatning the world would not be attacked.

And if they stopped being stupid enough to harbour valuable economic resources - er, I mean terrorists.

ther is no justification for diliberatly killing 9 inocent people, the only thing that makes you find justification in that is that those 9 people happend to be jewish israelis

If there's a reason to hate Jews then by constantly reading into the text more than is there is a 'woe is me' vein is certainly going to do it. My sympathies rapidly diminish the more times you repeat crap like this.

I really do not have the ethusiasm to tackle the rest of this post. But I must reiterate that you really need to lay off the 'anti-semite' accusations. It really doesn't get you any sympathy at all.

Apr 28, 2006 11:50 # 42686

Martin *** replies...

Re: Dear world

?% | 1

Okay, before I get into detail, can we try to agree on some basic rules of communication, discussion and exchange of opinions?
- Do you agree there is no "absolute truth"?
- Do you agree "historical facts" are a matter of standpoint?
- Do you agree there can be different views on the same topic?
- Do you agree this is not about winning or losing?
- Do you agree we try to reply to each others posts and are not adding conclusions and false imputations to our replies?

Imagined facts or fact taken out of context are meaningless

Strange..., whatever I say seems to be meaningless, pointless and matters little. How come you feel obliged to reply then?

now imagine you live in israel, along comes a super power and chucks you out, so you wonder aimlesslly from contry to contry for 2000 years
[...]
That is closer to the truth and the land the jews lived on before 1967 they purchased so cut the crap about stolen land.

I hate to ask so provocative, but did YOU wonder aimlessly from country to country for 2000 years? Or did even your direct ancestors? I wonder, where your true roots may be, but I'm almost sure its NOT in Israel, cause that's almost impossible.
Let me get this thing straight once more.
Being a Jew - sorry, for the misspelling in my earlier posts, played too much "Ultima", I guess - being a Jew describes your religion, what you believe in, but NOT your nationality or your ethnological roots. Being a Jew does not automatically make you an Israeli or allows you to have any demands towards land or nationalities. And I find it more and more absurd to mix up your national demands with a that of a religion. Or, the other way round, making religious demands political, national ones. That's, what you're doing, both directions, changing position whenever it suits you. So please, decide, are you talking to me as a Jew, or as an Israeli? Once you decide, stick to it. May be we can get some things straight then.

Why, why should israel have to be moved, the arabs have 22 contrys of wich to live in, israel has always been the jewish home land, hears an idea how about population transfer,

I didn't say Israel should be moved. I did ask the question, if it wasn't perhaps a more peaceful solution to have Israel FOUNDED somewhere else. Things are as they are, the mistake has been made. We all have to live with the consequences.
And btw, where is the homeland of Catholics? Is it Italy or the Vatican? Guess its getting pretty busy there, if all Catholics of the world demand to live there. Mmmh.. may be they can occupy Spain, France, Germany for themselves, too, the non-Catholics could live in Sweden or England, Poland or Russia. There are enough Non-Catholic nations surrounding them, let them live there! Where is the homeland of Buddhism? Nepal or India? Or even the Islam? Where is its homeland?
A religion may have its clerical center, where the most important artefacts are stored, but I can think of no other believers but Jews to demand a homeland for themselves. Tell me, if I'm wrong! Ok, its pointless anyway...

in 1948 when the arab contrys expeled most of thire jews stealing thire posessions and home,many arived with nothing in israel, they gave us our jews, so now we should give them thire arabs.

So you have no problem with doing *exactly* the same thing you are accusing half the world of? Expelling people for their ancestry? I call that fascistic. Seems to me you got no problem with anything, that has ever been done to Jews in the last 2000 years. You always use it as justification to pay the same thing back to your by paranoia imagined enemies.

The jewish home land has always been israel, we did not just pick an emply black whole we chose the home land of our ancesters, what justification do the arabs have to that land? Oh yeah thire ancestors stole it from ours.

You want to drag me into a "race-discussion" to accuse me of Anti-Semitism in the next step? No, I wont walk into that trap. Fact is the Arab history books read somewhat different. And there is no reason at all, why I should believe your version or any other without discussion about it. History books, especially national ones, are the very last source for truths, they are subjective versions of things happening. Only by learning about ALL version of the same incident you might be able to make up your own mind about the true events. And even then there is the obvious danger, that the losers and the dead were not able to write down their versions, which might perhaps bring a completely different light to things.

Iran iraq and afganistan, attacked for lesser reasons? Well lets see oh yeah afganistan was that not the contry from were alqueida with the help of the talaban arranged for planes to fly into buildings in america and kill thousands of inocent civilians, hardly a reason for the us attack. araq was invading other contrys hurting its own people and threatning to hurt alot more people, no jutification? Iran does not even bear speaking about.

OMG... sometimes I'm asking myself, whether or not you're actually believing yourself, what you're writing down here, or if you just trying to provoke. Even the U.S. people understood meanwhile they had been deceived about the true reasons. You are even more right winged than I thought or Israelis must be living under some very shady rocks, while being busy with writing their own history books. Those statements don't need no other comments, go, search the politics forum, if you want to add your enlighting comments somewhere.

I'l say it again if the arabs put down thire wheapons, there would be peace, if the israeli put down thire wheapons there would be no israel.

Simply wrong (I was going to say "outright bullshit"). There is something like a unity of nations, which has the might and the right to interfere with injustice against peoples. They are not always doing things as best as they could, granted, but no peoples would be annihilated under their eyes. And before you ask, they do not interfere now to full extent, because its Israel, who is the aggressor in the judgement of impartial nations, but its difficult to approach Israel, because you guys start whining about Anti-Semitism right away. And now again please explain why exactly Israel is ignoring UN resolutions.

A terorist organisation is just that if it targets americans, english, australians, spanish, or other arabs, but when they target israelis then thats okay they are just religios institutions(do i detect a hint of anti sematism here.)

Really, I'm getting sick of it. You Jews are twisting and turning everything against yourself, always suffering, always whining and when everything else fails complaining about anti-Semitism. And finally using that as justification to behave like seigniors from the Dark Age. Hello? Anyone told you this is 2006?
When and where did I say its okay to target Israelis? I said those are religious organisations to begin with. When and where did I make a difference between nations? I was talking about Hamas and Fatah and their roots and what MADE them terrorists, NOT about their targets.

They target inocent civilians, that makes them terrorists

Wrong. They decide to fight for something they believe in, just like you. They look at their means, what impact they can make, at what costs. They decide to turn violent. And only THEN they decide for targets. The word "terrorist" did effectively not exist in public language before 9/11. Its so convenient to call everything and everyone a terrorist, who does not fit into your picture of the world. Problem is there CAN be different pictures of the world. What makes them terrorists is not the actual killing, but the inability accept the existence of different ways of life on equal footing. And that counts for more people than Arabs...

your ignorance of the conflict is astounding not to mention blind support for the arabs that call them selves palastinians.

Want another example for you twisting the truth? No one ever wording his opinion here and in previous posts on that topic here over the years could be accused of "ignorance of the conflict". And "blind support for Palestinians".... well.... what can I say. May be you have to be that way to keep yourself in the mood of belonging to the minority, the suffering, the discriminated, to justify your own crimes. May be it works for yourself, but you're not making friends with statements like this, you'll not even find sympathizers among your own people with it, because you're disqualifying your and your position's credibilty.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

Apr 27, 2006 16:16 # 42658

null replies...

Re: Dear world

Wow. Your ability to talk round the subject and ignore the facts in front of your very eyes is amazing. You completely eliminate the need to respond to counterarguments by not even bothering to read them in the first place!
Hats off to you, and keep up the good work. As long as people like you have a voice, the war profiteers will never go to bed hungry.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

This post was edited by null on Apr 27, 2006.

Apr 27, 2006 16:29 # 42660

Hawkeye *** replies...

Re: Dear world

?% | 1

Netalivers, lets not turn this into a flame war. Tone it down a bit. Insults have no place in this argument, no matter how wrong someone might be.

Lightyears, you need to open your eyes and see the other side of the fence. You let emotions lead your argument, and emotions need no logic. I implore you to look at this from a logical standpoint. Israel and the surrounding countries have been duking it out since day 1, and you expect us all to believe Israel has done absolutely positively nothing wrong to induce this hatred?

If there is one thing you must admit, it is that wars are not fought for absolutely no reason at all. So what then, is the reason for them to attack you? And once you have answered that, tell us all why it is Israel is justified for doing the exact same thing to them?

I respect your right to post here, and I respect your opinion. However, that is where my respect ends. You're not admitting defeat by looking at alternate views. It is no wonder you feel the way you do. I'm sure you have been spoonfed this view of yours entire life.

Try to look at things from an alternate perspective. Martin's scenario is an excellent one, in fact.

If the world should blow itself up,the last audible voice would be an expert saying it can't be done

This post was edited by Hawkeye on Apr 27, 2006.

Apr 27, 2006 17:31 # 42663

Martin *** replies...

Re: Dear world

?% | 1

I agree with Hawkeye, please no flame war about the topic. And there's no need at all to attack the person! On the contrary, as weird and confused her opinions seem to be - SEEM to be, who can claim to have the ultimate truth about the matter - lightyears has my full respect for coming forth and speaking out against a wall of opposition here. I think, we should not let this drift away into something personal. Its one thing to have different opinions, but another to disrespect each other for it. This topic and uttered standpoints are too important to get reduced into something personal.

I DO find those opinions strange, sometimes even dangerous, that's why I felt the need to reply and show my point of view. Its hard to take someone serious, who so openly disrespects the formal rules, but so be it. That doesn't mean I have to go down to that level and draw it to a personal hassle (btw... Hawk/Andro... I feel strangely reminded of a certain situation in the past). I don't think its easy for lightyears to explain her views to a waiting pack of opposers, but lets not forget that she's got all the right to express her thoughts, just as anybody else here. In a way this is democracy at work. I can easily imagine societies, where neither her nor my opinion could be worded in public without getting in some sort of trouble. So, we should be grateful to have this opportunity, and in a way its even a valuable experience, because you can learn about the mechanics of hate and retaliation from first hand. You can learn how religion becoming politics creates an explosive mixture of violence.

I must say, reading and learning that I do not wonder anymore, why the killing goes on and on for decades now. And assuming this fanatism is exemplary for both sides extremists we can expect this conflict to go on until one side is complete eliminated. That's really a scary picture lightyears has given here.

After decades of construction my website is finally up an running: www.kkds.de

Jun 16, 2006 22:53 # 43075

havananights ** replies...

Re: Dear world

"It's funny how over the years, we as a culture attempt to tone down violence with disrespect and then wonder why we can never truly debate or peacefully co-exist without someone or some group "bullying" to get their point across. We are all insane because over the centries we find ourselves doing the same things expecting different results".---TonydelRegato

As history shows us, it has always been Aces over Kings

This post was edited by havananights on Jun 16, 2006.


Small text Large text

Netalive Amp (Skin for Winamp)