Reading Philosophy

Sep 21, 2006 15:09 # 43472

k9lionheart * tells about...

Counter racism

54% | 6

I just recieved this as an email, and I thought I'd share it with everyone:

There are African Americans, Mexican Americans,
Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Native Americans,
etc.
And then there are just Americans.

You pass me on the street and sneer in my
direction. You call me "Whiteboy," "Cracker,"
"Honkey," "Whitey," "Caveman" and that's OK.

But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towelhead,
Sand-nigger, camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink you
call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence
against you, so why are the ghettos the most dangerous
places to live?

You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have Yom Hashoah
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi
You have the NAACP.
You have BET.

If we had WET(White Entertainment Television)
we'd be Racists.
If we had a White Pride Day you would call us
racists.
If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to
"advance" our lives, we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black
Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain
Chamber of Commerce.
Wonder who pays for that?

If we had a college fund that only gave white
students scholarships, you know we'd be racists. There
are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the
US, yet if there were "White colleges" that would be a
racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you
were marching for your race and rights.
If we marched for our race and rights, you would call
us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and
orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when
we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But,
when a white police officer shoots a black gang member
or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law
and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud. But, you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists?

This has pretty much sums up everything I feel contradictory with the whole racist attitude. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing wrong with people who are a different race, in fact some of my best friends are black. Its just generally (and maybe this is because I live in a city), that most of the black teenagers to young adults that I have been around are some of the most obnoxious and disrespectful people I have ever met. I don't judge by color or any other aspect of a person that may make them different from me (ie, sex, age, religion, ethnicity etc), but it just gets harder and harder to maintain that attitude, when it feels like your surrounded by these type of people, and you don't really see much different. I guess this message I got is just another confirmation on how unjust the world can be.

Well thats all I got to say for now, I welcome your thoughts and responses.

Sep 23, 2006 11:31 # 43476

ReallyCoolDude *** throws in his two cents...

Re: Counter racism

97% | 6

Racism has always been a touchy subject. People don't try to discuss it, but it is widespread, not only in the US but everywhere else in the world too.

From a brown person's perspective this is what I have personally observed while spending 6 years in the US, and around 3 years in Botswana (South Africa), and the rest of my life in India:

When I was in Botswana, people used to hate me because of my color. Just because I was not black, and because most Indians had taken over the local businesses in Botswana, every person I met in the city (Gaborone) used to hate me from the bottom of their heart. I didn't go there univited, yet, one day while teaching, my English Lecturer asked me "Why don't you go back to India". She told me that because of me, some black person didn't get a seat in "Pure Science". I then noticed that in the class of around 20 people, around 7 were Indians. Maybe, we had in fact taken away opportunities from the local Batswanans and maybe the teacher was right. Because of me, there existed some Batswanan who had to choose Art instead of what he really wanted to choose - Science. The seats were totally decided on merit, and I cursed myself for coming from India and having an advantage over the local population because of superior mathematics and science knowledge.

So, maybe the teacher was right in asking me to go back to my country. Maybe I had no right to take away the positions that would have been filled by my fellow students who had to take Arts because of me.

Few years down the line, I was no longer in Botswana, I was in my own country, vying for a position for a Masters degree in Computer Science. Again, I faced a similar moral dilemma. Since, when I came back to India, and applied for a Bachelor's degree in the University, I had hoped to get admission on merit. Unfortunately, every strand (faculty) in the university had their own criteria to choose the students, and the sciences strand had a certain criteria by which people who had studied abroad (like me - Cambridge University, London) were given preference over others (and of course they were charged more fees then the other students).

So, I joined my Bachelor of Computer Science, solely based on the reference of Cambridge University London, and god, did I feel guilty? For all of 3 years that I spent getting my Bachelor's degree, I felt guilty for taking away that position from an under-priviliged kid - who didn't have the privilege to study Computer Science because I qualified for that position. Did I ever experience racist remarks because of it? Of course. India has a caste system (which I am sure many people are not aware of), and since I belong from one of the upper casts, people from the lower casts automatically assumed that I had obtained the admission solely based on my caste, and I had to face humilation in the next 3 years I was doing my Bachelor's degree (In India the Bachelor's degree is not of 4 years, but is of 3 years). Not once did any student from the lower caste recognize the fact that I could have got the admission because of merit, and they assumed that I am present because of my upper cast.

I did my masters, and then came to the Americas - the land of opportunity, and hoped to make it big. It was unfortunate that I decided to work for a company that had racist approach towards it's employees. The Americans were allowed to work from 9 to 5, while the Indians who were on an H1 visa were forced to work from 9 to 5 at one office, and then from 6 to midnight at another office. We didn't say anything because we assumed that things might get better the day we will get our green card. All 4 indians who were in the company in Houston worked their asses off and spent more than 10 hours a day for a company for 3 years continuously, and what did they get in return: no raise in salaries, constant threats of their green card not being taken care of, asking them to spend more hours; while nothing was said to the white employees. The companies knew that till the Indian employees didn't have their green cards, they could control them in whatever way they desire, and they did it that way.

Moral of the story: well, in my life I have seen numerous instances of racism from people of my own color and country, and from people of different color and country. I have felt guilty at some instance, and have felt humiliated at most times. There are people who will always exist who will not like the status quo. There are people who will find a racist remark in however small an incident or remark is. There are people who have been genuinely affected by racism, and they take out their anger against people whom they have been prejudiced against.

To turn a blind eye to racism is bad. Yes, racism does exist. Get used to it! People who deny racism are like an Ostrich who buries her neck in the sand and assumes that everything around it is okay.

No, it's not okay. The only place I have lived and not faced any racism so far is here in Vancouver, Canada. Will it remain the same way? I don't know. Maybe, it will remain the same way, but maybe it won't. When my kids go to college, will they face any racism? In spite of the fact that they would have been born and raised in the Americas, I would be stupid to assume that they wouldn't face any racism. How they tackle with it is an interesting question. And, I sincerely hope that they tackle racism question with maturity rather than rage.

Love is blind, but marriage is a real eye opener.

Oct 22, 2006 10:11 # 43527

windu * replies...

Re: Counter racism

94% | 3

Basically what you posted is propaganda. It's the type of diatribe used to indoctrinate gullible disaffected white youth into hate groups. It appeals to people that feel aggrieved, mostly about the lack of achievement or opportunity in their own lives. Somehow, they decide that the small group of Americans who make less, have higher unemployment rates, receive worse healthcare, and couldn't even vote in all 50 states until 40 years ago (i.e. your Grandad and even your Dad can remember), are to blame. Most of it can be categorized as "ahistorical" "non-contextual" or simply false. I'll explain.

First some definitions. "Ahistorical" -- an argument which ignores history, as if the current state of affairs was born out of nothing. An example: a mother grounds her son for not cleaning the dishes in the sink. But she is ignoring the fact that her daughter put the dirty dishes in the sink seconds before the mother walked into the kitchen. Yes, there are dirty dishes in the sink, but the son didn't put them there AND there wasn't time to wash them before mom saw them.

"Noncontextual" -- an argument which ignores important facts or circumstances relevant to the argument. Example: A 3 year old kid playfully punches Mike Tyson in the leg with all his might and is arrested for assault. The arrest ignores the child's age, his intent and his ability to do harm. Even better example: Mike Tyson punches the child back crushing his innards and is not charged because the child hit Mike first. The context is ignored: the child is a child, Mike is an adult, Mike hits hard enough to kill, the child was playing, Mike was not injured or in fear of being injured by the child.

Turning back to your post, here are some of it's specific problems.

"You pass me on the street and sneer, call me "Whiteboy" etc. and that's OK." Hmm. I'm sure that happens all the time. Even if did it's not OK, and most people, black or white, don't think it is OK.

The list of minority groups and holidays. First, the holidays are for everyone to celebrate, not just minorities. The Jewish holidays are religious, just like Easter. And I would say that dead white men get their fair share of recognition in American society, don't they? As for the groups, this argument is ahistorical and noncontextual. I leave it to you to research why they exist, but here's a headstart. The NAACP was started in a hotel in Canada in 1905. Why Canada? Because the US hotels were segregated.

BET? Good riddance. But ask yourself this: If you liked heavy metal music, but there was no metal station in your town or maybe one station played metal for an hour a day, would it be somehow wrong or prejudiced for you to start a metal radio station to serve the people that like metal music? As for "WET", I would say there are probably 100 WETs on my TV.

Would you be racist for having White History Month? Either that, or you'd have really low self-esteem. What other white person would feel the need to react to Black History Month, which was designed to highlight the overlooked contributions of black Americans so that disadvantaged black children would be encouraged to succeed and maybe overcome the violent ghettoes that your speech mentioned. It's also designed for those who do the overlooking, those that don't think black people have contributed anything other than manual labor to the building of this country.

As for the black colleges, see "ahistorical" and "noncontextual" above. You write as if blacks were happily invited to Georgetown, UVA, UNC, UGA, etc., but they decided they'd rather not attend, but would start black colleges with substandard facilities and resources because they hate whitey. Do your research. The first black student admitted to UGA (Univ. of Georgia) is still alive --Charlayne Hunter-Gault, you can see her reporting news on PBS everyday. How sad is that? Look up George Wallace and the University of Alabama. Have you ever even heard of segregation?

"You carjack us." That's just pathetic. Did Oprah carjack you? Or was it Colin Powell? Or the black dentist down the street? The black cashier at WalMart? The black soldiers and firefighters? Put down the Snoop Dogg albums and get to know some real black people, friend. I think you've been watching a little too much BET yourself.

One last lesson, on the subject of slavery and its effects, which provides both "history and context," to all of your "if a white person did that" arguments. The line below is a timeline showing the (1)beginning of African slavery in the U.S. in 1619 (yes, there was slavery here more than 100 years before there was a US of A), (2) the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation, (3) the end of segregation (roughly the Voting Rights Act of 1965), and (4) today. Point (3), the end of segregation, illustrates the earliest point at which even the most bigoted, but rational, person could argue that blacks have had equal rights in the U.S. Each dash represents 5 years.

|-------------------------------------------------|--------------------|--------|.

So things have been fair and square between 3 and 4 (ahem, right). And you complain about BET? Maybe now you can visualize how absurd your post is and how absurd present day white supremacy is. So 346 years of slavery and inequality have been made right in 41 years, about half of one human lifetime. That would be quite an achievement. Wake up. If you think in racial terms, and feel aggrieved by a group of people that your people had a 346-year headstart on, you've got bigger problems than Martin Luther King Day.

Dec 07, 2006 11:54 # 43688

Edward_Williams * replies...

Re: Counter racism

63% | 2

Because there is no such thing as a non-white race of people. White people say they are a race of people. Race is Racism. There is no point to be a member of a race but to practice racism.

Non-white historically divided themselves into groups based on geographical location or spiritual beliefs or something such as this. Non-white people never divided themselves into groups of people on the basis of color. Race and/or the practice of Race-ism is the mistreatment of people on the basis of color.

Dividing yourself into groups of people works fine in a village to organize day-to-day activities and/or organize yourself against other groups of people who also exist in other villages. But to organize yourself on the basis of color or non-color and do all of the business of the world on the basis of color or non-color, in reference to people, places the people who call themselves "white", whatever that means, in a position of power if they mistreat the people they say are not white (non-white people). This produces a system of mistreatment if the people who say they are white mistreat the people they say are not white in all places and at all times. This puts the white people who mistreat people on the basis of color, in all area of people activity, in a position of power over the people they say are not white (non-white people).

This position of power is known as white supremacy. White supremacy is a military position of power where the white people of the known universe who choose to mistreat people they say are not white, subject the "non-white" people to misuse and/or abuse on the basis of being non-white.

In conclusion, not only does race = racism, racism = white supremacy. A non-white person doesn't practice racism (white supremacy). A non-white person is subject to racism (white supremacy) and reacts accordingly. There is no way for a non-white person to organize against racism (white supremacy). Racism (white supremacy) is the greatest organization among the people of the known universe. Many things get done under the system of racism (white supremacy) but the system of racism (white supremacy) is an incorrect system because people are being mistreated. It should be guaranteed that no person is mistreated and also guaranteed the person who needs help the most get the most help. This is the definition I use for the word justice...guaranteeing that no person is mistreated and also guaranteeing the person who needs help the most get the most help. You can;t have justice and racism (white supremacy) in the same universe at the same time.

Mar 14, 2008 09:35 # 45555

Turings_child *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

?% | 1

I agree that the original post is propaganda but it does contain elements of truth in that we are so afraid to upset minorities that we will suppress our own cultural identity. That is not to say that racism can be tolerated in any form but here in England we have had many examples of political correctness gone mad. I would describe these as decisions made to satisfy a small minority of members within a racial/cultural group which would even make the other members of that same group ask why.

As a for instance it could be a national holiday based on white religious ideals being banned as it could upset non whites of other faiths. I have spoken to many members of those other faiths and most of them have no problem with it. In fact those who run shops and so on even use these occasions to do good business. Yet a minority of these groups may demand that the holiday be banned because it upsets them. This is just an example but decisions have been made on this basis and it is always the fanatical and extreme members of any group making demands and always those looking to make an issue of race on both sides who back them.

The truth is simply that racism is a problem with ultra left or ultra right political philosophies and those in the middle on both sides have no problem with other cultural groups. What is being questioned now is that , because of the raft of legislation designed to stop racism over the years, are white people being discriminated against in favour of minority group members when it comes to decision making about Jobs, school curriculum etc?

It is a question of whether the pendulum of racism has swung the opposite way.

I thinks therefore I is

Mar 14, 2008 14:52 # 45560

null throws in his two cents...

Re: Counter racism

This is a good read, well written and thoughtful. Thank you.

As for minorities and Political Correctness, I think we've been overdoing it for quite some time.

The question is, do we now need to discriminate against straight white protestant men until the year 2525 in order to compensate for centuries of discrimination against homosexual black jewish women?
I for one really don't think so.
Minorities should be protected, and their voices given enough extra weight to be heard by an otherwise overwhelming majority. Lessons from the past should not be forgotten. But repeating them with reversed roles isn't going to make life much better for most people.
What pisses me off are those Political Correctness loonies who think all straight white protestant men should feel guilty and apologize to all homosexual black jewish women for all eternity.
Women were discriminated against by men. Blacks were discriminated against by whites. But these white men are, for the most part, long gone. I'm a white male and as such belong to the group of people that discriminated against most minorities in this world at some point in history. Those white men did wrong. But I don't feel guilty about that, because it wasn't me who discriminated them... nor did I choose to be born a white male. What I can do is be aware of what my predecessors on this planet did wrong, and try not to repeat their mistakes. Blaming me personally for mistakes another white person made is racism, too.

A quick test whether people in your area are overdoing it with Political Correctness is to criticise the Israeli government in public and then try to count to ten before somebody screams "Nazi". ;-)

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

This post was edited by null on Mar 14, 2008.

Mar 14, 2008 15:22 # 45562

Turings_child *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

Amen to that, I try to treat everyone with respect but as with all else in life it is only a minority who will see discrimination where none exists.

I hesitated to get involved in this because I am a. 46 b. white and c. Male. To a certain mindset that says conservative and those same people will examine every word where discussions on racism are concerned.

I am NOT racist, in fact I enjoy finding out about others cultures and traditions but it does worry me when those loony lefties sell another part of my culture to satisfy a rabidly paranoid member of another culture. Oh and before I get comments about the paranoid bit I am sensible enough to differentiate between genuine concerns expressed by other people and those who just want to rabble rouse.

It's amazing that those complaining and those who back them are often far right/far left respectively.

I thinks therefore I is

Mar 15, 2008 07:57 # 45572

null throws in his two cents...

Re: Counter racism

I am a. 46 b. white and c. Male.

Ooh, a conservative! Liberal hate mail now!!!one!eleven!!

Seriously, I think the world would be a better place if more people made that attitude their own. Political affiliation or personal opinions don't really matter a lot as long as there is respect.

When life hands you a lemon, that's 40% of your RDA of vitamin C taken care of.

Mar 14, 2008 18:09 # 45565

Edward_Williams * replies...

Re: Counter racism

The focus should be on producing a SYSTEM of justice. Justice meaning guaranteeing that no person is mistreated and also guaranteeing the person who needs help the most get the most help. The smartest and most powerful white people are just going through the motions of compensating the people THEY SAY are not white (non-white) on a case-by-case basis. That's what they have always done. It is the way they run the business of racism (white supremacy). The problem for them is that there are way more non-white people on the planet now than there have ever been and the number is growing...where the number of white people on the planet is not increasing nearly as fast and may be in the process of even declining.

If the smartest and most powerful white people were against mistreating people on the basis of color no one would be mistreating people on the basis of color. If the smartest and most powerful white people were against Saddam Hussein...well..

It is not incorrect to have white people in charge of other people on this planet. But in charge and mistreating people? That is incorrect behavior. Unjust behavior.

I advocate replacing the SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy), a SYSTEM where people are mistreated on the basis of color in all area of people activity including Economics, Education, Entertainment, Labor, Law, Politics, Religion, Sex, and War...replace that SYSTEM of non-justice, with a SYSTEM of justice where it is guaranteed that no person is mistreated and also guaranteed the person who needs help the most get the most help in all area of people activity including Economics, Education, Entertainment, Labor, Law, Politics, Religion, Sex, and War.

Is there anyone here that does not want to produce a SYSTEM of justice?

Mar 14, 2008 18:51 # 45566

Turings_child *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

I am not against justice in favour of those who need it most but presumably someone must decide who need most help. The problem we are discussing here is that some radicals in any minority group would complain unless every case were judged in favour of minorities and those doing the judging would over compensate or even prejudge the case in order to avoid upsetting the minority group.

I should also say that minority/majority does not automatically mean black/white and I am aware that injustice does occur. It is just that we cannot allow our (English, not white or black) culture to be eroded in order to assure that all other cultures are happy. It is the ultra politically correct we are discussing. Say a job is available and a Gay man, a lesbian single mother and two straight guys (one black, one white) apply. It's a sales job and the gay man and the black guy have 10 years experience. The lady has no work experience. The white guy is a school leaver. So the gay guy or the black man should get the job being most suited to it. But no matter who is hired only one could not have a claim for discrimination (the school leaver.) and he is most unlikely to get it. Assuming he were to get the job all the others would have no trouble finding a liberal or left wing lawyer or mp to fight their corner on Racial/gay rights issues.

This is the counter racist issue that decisions are not based on common sense but the fear of inciting a racial or discrimination issue which simply does not exist.

I thinks therefore I is

Apr 01, 2008 15:59 # 45656

Edward_Williams * replies...

Re: Counter racism

Turings_child

Counter-Racism is supposed to produce one thing...a SYSTEM of justice. A SYSTEM of justice is a SYSTEM where it is guaranteed that no person is mistreated and also guaranteed the person who needs help the most get the most help.

What we have now, on this planet, globally, is a universal SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy). The SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) takes into account all of the people in the known universe. Systematically, all over the planet, people are being mistreated on the basis of color.

What you are describing are that there are some people who are attempting to compensate people for being mistreated on the basis of color, for whatever reason. And/or, compensate people for being mistreated on the basis of "sexual expression", for whatever reason. So on and so forth.

But they've got it all wrong and you have to be able to explain to them that they've got it all wrong and also explain how it should be. They have to be able to solve problems without producing more problems. YOU have to be able to solve problems without producing more problems. They can't just say that they're solving a problem for someone and it ends up making a problem for someone else and neither can you. That's not justice. Justice is guaranteeing no person is mistreated and also guaranteeing the person who needs help the most get the most help. If you or anyone else persist in solving problems for one or two people but not everyone in the known universe this kind of thing is going to keep going on. So it is going to take some thought.

I figured out a way to solve problems without producing more problems in a very short period of time. In the process of solving any problem you have to make sure, to the best of your ability that no person is mistreated and also make sure to the best of your ability that the person who needs help the most get the most help. Once you begin to think this way, speak this way, and do things in this manner you are going to meet with a lot of opposition. Opposition from people who you may consider to be some of the most smart and powerful people you know. Keep that in mind.

So it's not about English culture or gay culture or anything else. It is about either being in a culture of injustice or a culture of justice.

Apr 01, 2008 21:23 # 45657

Turings_child *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

?% | 1

What we have now, on this planet, globally, is a universal SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy).

Really? but haven't many African countries been given independence? Isn't at least 1 African leader following a policy of throwing whites off land and then leaving it to rot? Wasn't one of the worst dictators in modern history in fact black?

SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) takes into account all of the people in the known universe.

I prefer to deal with just the one planet. On other planets everyone may be one of 40 shades of pink. Seriously as there is no evidence of other planets having life I think we'd better just accuse the earth of having a system of white supremacy.

I figured out a way to solve problems without producing more problems in a very short period of time. In the process of solving any problem you have to make sure, to the best of your ability that no person is mistreated and also make sure to the best of your ability that the person who needs help the most get the most help.

Something we would all like to do and which any system of justice hopes to achieve. I think that my job example proves that this system would work up to the point where everyone seems to have a valid point.

But they've got it all wrong and you have to be able to explain to them that they've got it all wrong and also explain how it should be. They have to be able to solve problems without producing more problems.

Maybe anyone who advocates a system of justice should not start by saying that everyone else is wrong except themselves.

We all feel justice should be served and no one should be discriminated against on any grounds.You seem to be saying that your system is based around the fact that anyone white is automatically guilty of racial discrimination then that every case should be judged on it's merits. I am a little confused what you are trying to say to be honest.

Your system seems to be simply that everyone should be given justice and that those in more need of help should be given it. Well isn't that what every justice system promises. It is just a little short of practical recommendations.

However this thread is about going too far the other way purely to avoid racism, sexism etc. It seems that your theory would be wide open to those who would over-compensate in favour of minorities and against the majority.

I thinks therefore I is

Apr 02, 2008 13:10 # 45658

harold_maude *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

?% | 1

A friend sent me the poem yesterday.

I'm going to preface this by saying when I read it, it caused some of my own issues with past activities of human beings, particually of the male of the species to rise up. It did not nessiarily touch what the white or pink skinned people have done to people of colors that arn't white or pink.
In order to keep a clear view, I had to look at what the person was actually saying when they wrote this.

It sparked conversation and like many conversations that deal with the issue of justice, it's a bit difficult at times to keep a clear perspective.
It would be easy for me and all people like me to put who we are in the ranks who have suffered under raceism,
to stand up and say that the white skinned people,
deserve to be on the other end of the stick.
And to say that white skinned people need to pay for what they have done.
But to do that, would make me just as guilty as the people of the past, the whites in particular, who did terrible things to the black, red, yellow skinned people along with all the religious persicution that falls under the same miserable tyrany of raceism that has and still does exist.

A side note here, none of us are our ansestors. We are the children of people who either suffered under something or were the one's doing it.

The idea of justice for all, simply means just what it says. For all, without regard to any physical conditions attached to define how justice is best served.
True justice, is color blind.

Having said that, it must also be said that remembering the past and the terrible things that have been done by one group of people tord another so that we as the human race do not go there yet again.

I forget who said, thoes who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
It should be said also that it's very possible that thoes who have fought to gain reconigion even as people, are capable of doing the exact same things to thoes who are decendants of the people who did terrible things to people who weren't just like them.

Just because someone overcomes something does not mean they won't turn around and do the same things back.
True raceisim, like other true terrors that are possible when you deal with humans is not color bound.

I do believe in light of this, that it's also important to remember that each person walking on the face of the earth, doesn't matter the color, where they are from, their belief system or gender is fully capable of practicing raceism.

Raceism is about power and the notion of control. One group over another. Raceism is more about being self-centered at it's heart than anything else.

There are people of honor in the world, people in human history that have fought and laid down their lives so that someone somewhere could be free of tyrany or oppression.
They have come in every color and every race and both male and female.
And it's equally true that there are people in the world who fit the terrible lables that are coined by people who have practiced and are still practicing raceism.
They can be found in every color every belief system and both male and female.

Until the human race wakes up and realizes that it's not the skin color or belief system or gender that defines what a person is or isn't, the problem will persist.
The real problem is more about how justice is defined and metered out.

That's my take on this.

Apr 02, 2008 18:58 # 45661

Turings_child *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

?% | 1

Maybe perfect justice is like a perfect world, an impossible dream but an inspiration to change the existing system/world for the better.

I thinks therefore I is

Apr 02, 2008 22:28 # 45662

harold_maude *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

As long as there are imperfect humans there will be imperfect justice.

A perfect world? Well, alot has been written on the subject of what a perfect world is, and even the authors of thoes books don't all agree.
So like perfect justice what defines a perfect world is up for interpertation.

My thoughts on that are more about people striving to be who they are truely ment to be. In that place, it's far easier to strive to treat eveyone else with honor and justly in all respects.

Underneath the skin you wear, you and me and everyone else here in the world have aproximately the same stuff. It's seems to be that the color of skin or where they are from gets too much in the way to see clearly.

Apr 03, 2008 18:21 # 45666

Turings_child *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

?% | 1

Yes I agree entirely, the imperfections of those concerned will always mean that there can be no perfection in systems created by them.

Look at Zimbabwe, it was Rhodesia and one of the most racist (Anti coloured) regimes on the planet. Then along comes Mugabe and overthrows the tyrannical and racist government to general celebration. That was in the 70-80's and now turns out that Mugabe is a tyrannical dictator himself but hates anyone no matter what colour if they try to say Mugabe is not a nice person. Futhermore inflation means that a billion dollar monthly salary buys about five loaves. So which system is better blatantly racist or blatantly destructive to the country.

Obviously neither but it is the imperfections of both governments people that leads to the imperfection of the systems.

I thinks therefore I is

Apr 05, 2008 00:25 # 45668

harold_maude *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

The biggest problem with any govement is the people who end up at the top of the food chain, simply because the people who end up there arn't perfect to begin with.

So then you give that person the power to rule over a country and that much power tends to corrupt and then it becomes the problem of absoult power corupting absoultly.

I would like to see the qualifications to enter into govement change. The first requirement I would like to see put into place is anyone who would aspire to pollitcal office required to be homeless and jobless for the same amount of time the office they are considering allows.

This would be a problem if the elected office is for life, as in dictatorships. But a 5 year stretch of homeless life would go along way to give someone in office a better understanding of what happens when a system puts the most demands on the poorest people in that system.

Doing this one thing might help change the people who want to rule and make them more humane and help them to remember that underneath we are pretty much all the same.

The second thing I would do in this countries system of goverment is change the amount a retired offical gets from the office they hold. The last I heard was the president gets a million dollars a year along with secret service protection for life.
I would lower the amount to about fifty thousand a year for the same amount of time they served and limit the secret service protection to the same number of years.
It would save the tax payers heaps of money and maybe the thought that it wouldn't be so easy to get into office no matter how much money you have and the perks after arn't so cushie either.
I would also require anyone serving office to fulfill a equal term after office in community service, volunteer status with no pay naturally.

If nothing else it would change the playing field of people who want to run for office.

Apr 05, 2008 10:16 # 45669

Turings_child *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

Eminently sensible ideas. The uk prime minister usually ends up with a nice little earner after his / her terms of office and you never see a poor politician. The question of mp's expenses are in the news at the moment. They claim for all kinds of things.

Political systems do seem to bring out the worst in politicians.

I thinks therefore I is

Apr 08, 2008 12:51 # 45675

harold_maude *** replies...

Re: Counter racism

?% | 1

Politics seem to bring out the worst behavior in most people who end up there.
I really do think it's the idea of being control with that much power. It goes to their head and they loose the ablity to be reasonable and sensable about anything.

Funny thing about that is that controll is an illusion. The only thing a person can actually control is themselves. And politions seem to never remember that so they end up doing things that the rest of us suffer under.

Nov 08, 2010 08:46 # 46882

yalaclaus * replies...

Re: Counter racism

Dealing with power is much more complicated than becoming a president and start thinking "Now I can do anything I want". As a president you have so many enemies within your own government that the point stops being to "control" the masses. My views.

"Being cool ain't enough homie, I'ma freeze time like...that..."


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